Here's an email I got this week:
She wondered "I guess part of me wondered why he would tell me these things. How often are men accused of abuse that did not happen?"
Men are accused of things all the time that don't happen. However, from the interviews I did for all my books I was consistently amazed by how much women did NOT believe the things they were told about him -- either by him, someone else, or what they found out about. Every piece of information is a possible reality. Nothing should be immediately dismissed because remember, pathology can take a while to reveal itself.
The best remedy is to NOT dismiss anything, date slowly, listen carefully, don't move in or marry within two years or so. Especially if you ALREADY had one of these relationships -- you're more at risk than other women.
But let's talk about WHY the above is still a red flag even though he's confessing up front. First of all, I don't know if she has read the Women Who Love Psychopaths book or not, but if she hasn't she should because I discuss their need to control reality.
If he 'gives' you the information, even if it's bad, he gets to give it to you with his own spin on it. He can manipulate and sculpt reality to make him look innocent, get sympathy from you, make her look like a psycho or bad mom, etc. Presenting information upfront does not necessarily mean he's being honest. In fact, lots of people come in supposedly "'fessin' up" -- so in some ways, that's even a red flag for me.
Some of them have 'subconscious leaking' when stuff they are concerned about starts leaking into the conversation. We call these 'Freudian slips' (instead of saying "I absolutely adore that" when you are thinking "abhor" you might slip and say "I absolutely abhor that!" revealing your real motive). Sometimes when they are trying to cover their tracks and they are hyper-focused on putting their own spin on it, what they are talking about is what they are subconsciously dealing with.
One year I just KNEW my pastor was having marriage problems because he preached ALL YEAR on marriage. When you have to announce you have this quality or that quality, I begin to wonder why you need to announce it. There's a line in Shakespeare's 'Hamlet' that says 'Thou doth protest too much' which means, when you keep talking about
it, the opposite is likely to be true.
"Moody" to me means over use of alcohol, drugs, or prescription medication, an unmedicated mood disorder or a hidden impulse control problem that is really unbridled anger that he has dismissed with a label of 'moody.'
And if HIS parents are worried about him harming his ex -- there definitely is a rage and impulse control problem. To me, these aren't merely red flags but blaring tornado sirens. I would be interested in what she is 'doing' with this information inside of herself that it isn't at siren level for her. There must be some level of minimizing this information. But let's talk a minute about how boundaries play into this as well...
One of the sneakiest tricks that pathologicals often use in relationships is to 'test' your boundary levels. I have had pathologicals tell me that they 'choose' their relationships based on loose, weak, or inconsistent boundaries.
How they test that is they will do something very small as a boundary violation. It could be so small that it doesn't register with you (and that could be because unless it's a HUGE boundary violation you're not recognizing it). It could something as superficial as being 20 minutes late, forgetting his wallet, forgetting a date, or calling his ex by a foul name and you not confronting him. Women who have hyper-tolerance are not likely to react to violations this 'small.'
They test to see what you react and respond to and what you don't. So if you don't confront boundary violations up front, it's a green light to a pathological. He'll test it further the next time and keep moving the bar higher to see just how 'limber' you are when it comes to tolerating his behavior. If he mostly wants money, it will be money issues (go into business with him, give him a loan, pay 50% on dates all the time, etc.). If it's wanting to have multiple relationships, he'll not show up, or won't give you his phone number or you find out about other women but still date him anyway... these are all boundary violations that he tests in order to determine your 'workability' in his plan.
Boundaries are the #1 issue related to pathological love relationships. The women we tested for our research realized they didn't have good boundaries, didn't recognize boundary violations, didn't know how to get good boundaries, and were often uncomfortable exerting boundaries. No wonder this is a HUGE prevention and recovery issue for people emerging from pathological relationships. It's SO important that we have added it to our retreat list this year -- people absolutely MUST develop boundaries or they are permanently at risk for more of these relationships.
The pathologicals already admit this is what they look for. Out of the mouth of babes we have great information that can help women prevent these relationships and not go back into them the next time if they work diligently on their boundaries. Come to one of our retreats this year and shore up your boundaries so you aren't a walking target!
Here's a great note from someone who 'got it' about boundaries:
"I am concerned about some of the things someone I am dating said...My response was "What does abusive, moody, and wanting to hurt someone mean to you?"
- He told me that his ex-wife accused him of being abusive. He said he was telling me this because he wants to be honest and does not want me to find this out from other people and get only her side of the story.
- He told me that he can be a lot more "moody" than he presents.
- He told me that the end of his marriage was really tough and that his wife was threatening to take the kids. He said his parents were worried because as he put it "I really wanted to hurt her."
She wondered "I guess part of me wondered why he would tell me these things. How often are men accused of abuse that did not happen?"
Men are accused of things all the time that don't happen. However, from the interviews I did for all my books I was consistently amazed by how much women did NOT believe the things they were told about him -- either by him, someone else, or what they found out about. Every piece of information is a possible reality. Nothing should be immediately dismissed because remember, pathology can take a while to reveal itself.
The best remedy is to NOT dismiss anything, date slowly, listen carefully, don't move in or marry within two years or so. Especially if you ALREADY had one of these relationships -- you're more at risk than other women.
But let's talk about WHY the above is still a red flag even though he's confessing up front. First of all, I don't know if she has read the Women Who Love Psychopaths book or not, but if she hasn't she should because I discuss their need to control reality.
If he 'gives' you the information, even if it's bad, he gets to give it to you with his own spin on it. He can manipulate and sculpt reality to make him look innocent, get sympathy from you, make her look like a psycho or bad mom, etc. Presenting information upfront does not necessarily mean he's being honest. In fact, lots of people come in supposedly "'fessin' up" -- so in some ways, that's even a red flag for me.
Some of them have 'subconscious leaking' when stuff they are concerned about starts leaking into the conversation. We call these 'Freudian slips' (instead of saying "I absolutely adore that" when you are thinking "abhor" you might slip and say "I absolutely abhor that!" revealing your real motive). Sometimes when they are trying to cover their tracks and they are hyper-focused on putting their own spin on it, what they are talking about is what they are subconsciously dealing with.
One year I just KNEW my pastor was having marriage problems because he preached ALL YEAR on marriage. When you have to announce you have this quality or that quality, I begin to wonder why you need to announce it. There's a line in Shakespeare's 'Hamlet' that says 'Thou doth protest too much' which means, when you keep talking about
it, the opposite is likely to be true.
"Moody" to me means over use of alcohol, drugs, or prescription medication, an unmedicated mood disorder or a hidden impulse control problem that is really unbridled anger that he has dismissed with a label of 'moody.'
And if HIS parents are worried about him harming his ex -- there definitely is a rage and impulse control problem. To me, these aren't merely red flags but blaring tornado sirens. I would be interested in what she is 'doing' with this information inside of herself that it isn't at siren level for her. There must be some level of minimizing this information. But let's talk a minute about how boundaries play into this as well...
One of the sneakiest tricks that pathologicals often use in relationships is to 'test' your boundary levels. I have had pathologicals tell me that they 'choose' their relationships based on loose, weak, or inconsistent boundaries.
How they test that is they will do something very small as a boundary violation. It could be so small that it doesn't register with you (and that could be because unless it's a HUGE boundary violation you're not recognizing it). It could something as superficial as being 20 minutes late, forgetting his wallet, forgetting a date, or calling his ex by a foul name and you not confronting him. Women who have hyper-tolerance are not likely to react to violations this 'small.'
They test to see what you react and respond to and what you don't. So if you don't confront boundary violations up front, it's a green light to a pathological. He'll test it further the next time and keep moving the bar higher to see just how 'limber' you are when it comes to tolerating his behavior. If he mostly wants money, it will be money issues (go into business with him, give him a loan, pay 50% on dates all the time, etc.). If it's wanting to have multiple relationships, he'll not show up, or won't give you his phone number or you find out about other women but still date him anyway... these are all boundary violations that he tests in order to determine your 'workability' in his plan.
Boundaries are the #1 issue related to pathological love relationships. The women we tested for our research realized they didn't have good boundaries, didn't recognize boundary violations, didn't know how to get good boundaries, and were often uncomfortable exerting boundaries. No wonder this is a HUGE prevention and recovery issue for people emerging from pathological relationships. It's SO important that we have added it to our retreat list this year -- people absolutely MUST develop boundaries or they are permanently at risk for more of these relationships.
The pathologicals already admit this is what they look for. Out of the mouth of babes we have great information that can help women prevent these relationships and not go back into them the next time if they work diligently on their boundaries. Come to one of our retreats this year and shore up your boundaries so you aren't a walking target!
Here's a great note from someone who 'got it' about boundaries:
"I am so proud of myself and I just have to tell you it works, it really, really works!
I got involved recently with a man who seemed to be the opposite of my previous psychopath. All the traits I like, strong, dominant, etc. but seemed to have a good heart, and importantly a good history. I checked him out, he had a long service in the police force and a voluntary youth organization, was widely respected and successful.
Recognizing my vulnerability, I kept my eyes and ears open, and my heart guarded. After 3 weeks I started to spot inconsistencies, tested a bit, and noticed the feeling of cognitive dissonance and didn't ignore it.
After 6 weeks I ended the relationship, even though part of me was screaming inside "no, don't do it". Only afterwards did I discover that not only was he cheating on a wife who had cancer, but he was also cheating on a long term girlfriend, who genuinely loved him and is devastated. He was playing with fire by putting us both on the same web page because we got chatting without having any idea of the relationships involved and it all came out. I've given her a link to saferelationships.com and can only hope she learns from the experience.
I SO proud of myself. I got out before getting too involved, so it didn't hurt. The experience was positive in that I made a different choice, for me. My stop light is starting to work and I'm learning I can trust my instincts again."
1 comments:
Amazing Article! Very thought provoking.
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